Well, unless you've been hiding under a rock where HP fandom is concerned, I'm sure that everyone has heard about the Trial currently underway where JKR and WB are trying to block the publication of a print version of the Harry Potter Lexicon. This is getting worldwide attention and is creating a rift in the Harry Potter Fandom. Some are firmly for JK Rowling, and other are just as adamant for the Lexicon. Before I go on about my personal opinion, I am very interested to hear what everyone else thinks about this situation.

A summary of the first two days of trial can be seen on TLC here:
Day One
Day Two

I know that many people feel very strongly about this and I hope that we can discuss it without getting personal.

*crawls out from under her rock and stares, wide-eyed*
Really??!

Well, I can see her point. I mean, if I put all that work into something and someone wanted to publish an encyclopaedia before me about what I’ve written, I’d be pretty peeved too. I love Lexicon to bits – many a time have I gone to its wealth of knowledge when I can’t be bothered searching the pages of the true text to check that I’ve got my facts right – but JKR definitely has the right to want her own work published first.

I don’t know all the facts as I’ve only managed to have a quick scroll through the first day (thanks Plynn for linking!), but I totally see her point. Yes, Lexicon is awesome and many people have put a hell of a lot of work into it, getting it right and making sure they haven’t missed anything, and it is on the internet already for all the world to see, but at the end of the day it’s not their work. It’s based on someone else’s.

I know there are many printed encyclopaedias based on other fantasy worlds (for example, I know there’s one on Tolkien’s work (heck, there are probably several)), however the big difference is (as far as I know – please correct me if I’m wrong), the original authors did not or were not inclined to make one themselves, or endorsed the writing of one for them. Clearly, that’s not the case here. HP is a huge industry. Yes there’s a lot of money in it, but it is JKR’s baby. It’s her creation. She has a right to say no to someone else writing – and more to the point publishing something about her world. Especially if she's already indicated she's planning to do the same thing herself.

I have a lot of respect for Lexicon and the people who write it, but I think that out of respect for the creator, they should wait their turn before turning it into hardcopy.

But I did notice one thing that JKR said at the trial – that if other people released their own versions, by the time she got hers ‘limping’ out, everyone would be sick of them. Not true!

Anything printed before her version would only ever have what the fans already know, and if there are any additions, it’d only be speculation. Only JKR can write the ‘true’ encyclopaedia, and I hope she realises that even if she loses this battle, her fans will still be very squeeful over whatever she writes, as she still knows a hell of a lot more about that world than we do. I really hope JKR hurries up with her version and adds in all those little details we are dying to know (like when exactly is Sirius’ birthday?! lol).

So that’s my two knuts.

What really got me today was Steve's audacity with the following clip from HPANA:

Quote::

he was talked into doing it by the publishing company" and that "it's been difficult because there has been a lot of criticism, obviously, and that was never the intention.

Uhm, excuse me? He was such a star to me in the fandom. He gave me goosebumps with his talks and then he let it get to his head.

Legally, I don't know the full rules. Ethically? I think he should have dropped this at the first sign of a JK Encyclopedia. Period.

I feel that a publishing company cannot talk someone into publishing a book unless that person wants to publish. I also believe he should step up and own his actions. If he wants to publish an encyclopedia then he should say so, not say that someone else made him do it. That being said, I think without JKR's permission that it would fall under copyrite infringement. In essence he would be getting paid for her work. I think legally and ethically wrong and would be theft. I for one would not buy it and would wait for JKR to publish her encyclopedia.

I'm, with Mag on this one. I don't know what the legalities of it all are, but I think that if he had any real respect for JKR, he would cease and desist. It looks to me like he's just trying to make money out of HP. "Talked into it" translates as "they offered him a boatload of money" and for that he was prepared to abandon his priciples. As far as I'm concerned, he's only made himself look bad by the whole thing.

Even if he is legally allowed to publish it, I hope fandom supports JKR and boycotts his book in favour of the one she will be writing. I know I will.

Didn't someone work out that 75% of the content of the Lexicon is directly quoted from the books? It seems to me that JKR has every right to demand that he drop the project.

I agree that he seems to be trying to make a boatload of money off of JKR's imagination and effort. The guy just needs to man up and admit he wants to make the money, not hide behind the bad, push publisher. If it were his own work, I'd certainly feel the same way if someone tried to profit off of all the effort he'd put in over years and years. Just because you've built a successful website doesn't give you the right to publish.

I guess I don't see why she didn't put a stop to the lexicon BEFORE she decided to publish an encyclopedia. She obviously knew about it, didn't she feature it on her site? And she's made positive comments about it before. Suddenly she decided she wanted to publish her own encyclopedia, and it's "boo hoo, my characters are being stolen from me."

So is she actually suing to get the site taken down, or is she suing to just stop the book publication? Because I mean, if she doesn't sue to take the site down, people can always just go there and look at the info for free. But the problem is if she IS suing to take the site down now, it seems a little shady to me, because she always knew about it. I hope she isn't suing for money, either. I do agree that he shouldn't publish the encyclopedia (and if she's just suing to stop it's publication, that's fine), but I think the website should stay, because she endorsed it herself.

I am pretty sure that she is just trying to stop the publication of the book. She doesn'y have a problem with the website, because the people who run it are not making any money. She just has a problem with the Lexicon trying to make money off of the information that is on the website. That, I think, is a perfectly legitimate gripe. Basically the Lexicon is just a summary of her work, and they should not be able to profit from it. She doesn't have any problem with fansites, because they are free to the public, but when they try to make a profit off of her work, then she has a problem. I think that we can all understand that. I personally, would not pay money for a book, when all of the information is already free for me to see online.

I am not a fan of her trying to stop this nor am I a fan of her saying that if he publishes this, she cannot publish HER Encyclopaedia Pottanica. I don't know why she's doing this, either, I don't think she can stand to make any money off of this and I think she's insulting our intelligence by claiming, "It gives me no pleasure to take legal action, but I am here today because I feel very strongly about an important issue that affects everyone and not just me. If books that plagiarize other works are permitted, authors, fans and readers stand to lose. There are lots of books in many languages that comment on or criticize Harry Potter and that’s fine. But the book in this case is different. It provides no analysis and virtually no commentary. It takes far too much and it offers precious little in return." -- mugglenet.com

There are A LOT of books that were out before Book 7/Movie 5 discussing how it would all end, and they were ripped and inferiour to the internet. It's not plagirism as it is his own work that he's copying (if it is directly from the site) and, would he not credit J.K. Rowling and cite all his sources?

I don't like that she's doing this to this guy (who, by the way, needs to man up and stop breaking down during the trial) AND, again, saying if he does this, she cannot go on to publish her Enclyclopaedia. Would collectors buy what he has to offer? Yes, and, if it is so inferiour, they may be the only ones because I will not likely buy something I may get for free (the website IS still going to be up, right?). I just hope that when she publishes her Encylopaedia, it is more informative (i.e., entire Black-Gaunt-Weasely-Goyle-Potter-Malfoy Tree; Moaning Myrtle's first name, whatever became of the children's children....) than his.

I also think she is insulting our intelligence by saying that this is stopping her from her latest work. Nobody is pushing her to sue. She has every right, but, don't cry victim if by saying your voluntary action is somebody else's fault.

Am I missing anything? I am amazed at how I am in the minority (unanimous minority, it seems, as far as how I am approaching this); what am I not getting?

If it was his own work, such as interpretation or commets, then it would not be plagirism. But all he is doing is copying her work and putting it in an encyclopedia type book. He's not really doing anything of his own except organizing data. And he wants paid for doing that. But the data he is organizing is copyrited and owned by JKR not him. There is the source of the problem. When we write fanfiction, we put a disclaimer that we are not making any money and that we do not own the characters. How would you feel if you had written a series of boks and someon else copied your work and got paid for it? That is what he is doing. And this probably is stopping her from her latest work, she has to show up and defend herself and work from being stolen from her. No, noone pushed her to sue but she is the victim here. He shouldn't get away by stealing her hard work.

I disagree. He is copying his own work, from what he has researched of hers, collected all the information that she has made known about the series. It is her work, but, he is still very much at the mercy of her disclosure.

I don't think anybody here can comment on the contents of the book because none of us have seen it, however, do we trust J.K. enough to believe her when she says the book contains little value comparitively, and do we accept this by default since I have not seen Vander Arc or his lawyer(s) refute this (though, I haven't been delving for this). Do we know that he doesn't have a part of this book that gives credit to Rowling? If it is like the lexicon, doesn't he site from where he is referring?

I don't know how I would hypothetically feel if somebody wanted to get paid for the work I did in this speculative scenario, but, he is not merely copying the work; he is organising the work, as you pointed out, stacey.

This doesn't HAVE to stop her from her latest work, though.

I will concede that it may be copyright infringement, but, she's coming off to me as sort of Heather Mills McCartney.

Furthermore, what will happen if she loses? Will she appeal? Yes, the guy will have won, but, will he be able to sell a book? Would even libraries buy it? Is Rowling stopping this because it will be EXACTLY like her Encylopaedia? Is she going to use his site to use as research for that publication? Let's just say that I DO buy his book should he win (for the sake of this arguement, let's just say), would that prevent me from buying hers as well? Would hers be worth buying?

Wait a minute, is he being viewed as some shady guy who just wants to make a quick buck? ....I still am not sure if I can view him as such, though, because he spent 10 years of his life to compose and perfect his site.

...Just my 2 cents for now...

*Edit* Also, will we, as the general HP Loving Public, still patron his site...for free...should he decide to leave it up, for free? Will we boycot him altogether to make a statement or will we still use him for our needs?....Has there already been a disciscion about this?

You bring valid arguments (and certainly opinions) to the table, Mopsy.

For me, more than anything, it is a gut feeling. And this is coming from someone who would jump at the chance to hear him speak because he was so great. But he has fallen off that fandom pedestal and fallen really hard.

Back in November, she posted to her site

Quote::

I take no pleasure in the fact that publication has been prevented for the present. On the contrary, I feel massively disappointed that this matter had to come to court at all. Despite repeated requests, the publishers have refused to even countenance making any changes to the book to ensure that it does not infringe my rights. Unless their position changes, we will all return to court next year. Given my past good relations with the Lexicon fansite, I can only feel sad and disillusioned that this is where we have ended up.

This to me shows that she tried to work it out with them but it just never worked out between them. Why would you argue so much against a person that you supposedly revere and whom you are basing a reference book on? If JK Rowling were dead and her children were suing to halt publication of this reference work, then I would be more on his side because she wouldn't be able to organize anything herself for us. She can still deliver this to us. Why would you want to beat the original author to the proverbial punch? Talk about stealing your thunder.

And she is human. She is very disappointed in how all of this has turned out so I can definitely empathize with her and how all her creativity has been sucked out of her. It isn't even necessarily a conscious decision. It just screws with her mind and emotions.

As for copying his own work, I don't buy it. He copied her work to begin with. In that vein, people who fanfic have put more work into a creative endeavor based on her work and while she happily lets it happen, there is no way that she will allow it to be sold legally. And the dozens of books out there about HP offer analysis and bring forth new information which is why they were never stopped.

And then SVA starts crying about how he was forced into this? Oh Steve, please...

Mopsy, I totally disagree with your view that he is copying his own work. His work, if you will, was taking all of JKR's words, and organzing them in a different fashion. Thus all the quotes about Sirius are in the Sirius entry. All the quotes about Godric's Hollow are in the Godric's Hollow entry. While a lot of research and effort may have gone into the website, it is not original work. It is simply taking JKR's words and transposing them in a different format.

I hardly see any relationship between JKR's behavior and Heather Mills' behavior. JKR worked hard to dig herself out of poverty. Heather Mills had a pretty face and a so-so active modeling career that happened to attract a rich older guy. The difference between intellectual property/work and marrying for money is huge.

I don't know that Steve wrote any of the essays on the Lexicon himself. I haven't read that many of them. Those would be considered original work by the individual authors, that once again, aren't necessarilly his intellectual property. I think most authors are pretty happy to have their fiction submitted for academic analysis, however, I don't think that the proposed Lexicon book is a serious academic work that would be considered that type of scholarly analysis. It's just someone cashing in on someone else's work.

Frankly, I'm disappointed by most of the published books out there related to the Potterverse. Whatever work she finally puts out for print is going to be THE definitive encyclopedia, and I think a lot of hardcore HP fans are willing to wait and spend the money. I would support a boycott of the Lexicon print book. If the website isn't making any real money (other than ads?), why does he need money from this now?

If Steve was just copying the essays on Lexicon, with the permission of the essay's authors, that would be his own work.

I don't know all the little details in it, or the copyright laws Jo has for her work, but from keeping half an ear on it since it started, it sounds a lot like it all has to do with the money. The publishers want money, Steve wants money.

If JK wins, wouldn't it cause the publishers to lose money? If I looked into publishers, I wouldn't want one that was sued and lost over copyright infringement like this.

Solitaire wrote:

why does he need money from this now?

Ten to one he's got some hefty divorce costs and alimony payments to pay out, not to mention paying for his kids' college educations.

Yes, I went there. No tomatoes please.

Leaving his personal life aside, as someone who's sat through his presentation on the HP world, I can say that he was a very entertaining speaker. At the same time, though, there was something a bit .... off-putting in how he put forth theories on where and what JKR based locations and place names on in the WW (I'm thinking particularly of his certain identification of the area for Hogsmeade and Hogwarts itself). If he followed the same vein in the Lexicon book, then I wouldn't be surprised to find him putting forth his "solutions" of WW mysteries as solid fact. And that impedes on JK's territory when it's not presented as a theory. He's already done this before in trying to take credit for the timeline presented in one of the film DVDs as "stolen" from the Lexicon. Though how JKR can steal from her own work is a bit beyond my comprehension.

He should've found a way to work something out with JK directly if he was really set on publishing the Lexicon, and if he truly was disgusted with the publishers as he claims, he should've found a way out of his contract with them, taking his unpublished manuscript with him. Settling privately would've looked a lot better than dragging this all out in court and making himself look like quite the fool in front of the whole world, not just fandom.