The topic of 'Severus Snape - Good or Evil?' has come up in so many topics that it's impossible to just move one, so here is a new topic for the final analysis. Personally, I'm a bit surprised that one is needed after DH but that's probably the Poncey Snape Lovah in me talking...

Before the discussion gets underway, however, I want to say that the debate, for me at least, has never been about how nice Severus was (I think there are few who would argue that he was a pleasant fellow who loved animals and wore fluffy slippers) but about which side he was on (Dumbledore's/Harry's, Voldemort's or his own). After DH, I think we can safely say he was Dumbledore's man and, ultimately, on Harry's side - indeed Harry acknowledges this by naming one of his children Albus Severus.

In terms of evidence for Snape was good, I'll just mention a couple of things briefly. Snape works to save Harry's life right from book one when he mutters counter-curses at the Quidditch match and he goes on doing that into book 6 when he stops the Death Eaters from throwing spells at Harry. Beyond that, he continues working on the tasks that Albus Dumbledore gives him right up until his last moments in book 7 when he provides the memories so crucial to Harry's sacrifice.

Comparing Snape to Lord Voldemort also helps to clarify matters. Voldemort, who is the epitome of evil in the books, is doomed because he can neither love nor feel remorse. Severus Snape, on the other hand, loved Lily for most of his life and the remorse he felt at her death was so overwhelming it led him to risk his own life time and again.

I don't think the fact that Snape changed his allegiance because of Lily in any way diminishes the role that he played in Voldemort's downfall. After all, there are many people in a war situation who only realise what's truly at stake when it hits them close to home. Severus' love of Lily is all the more remarkable because it happened despite the prejudices that were already ingrained in him by age 10. Sirius was quite special in that he was able to stand up to those prejudices at an early age. Snape and Regulus didn't manage it until later in life, does that mean they were both evil? I think not. The fact is they changed and both died fighting for the good side.

Another thing to consider is the running theme of choices and how they show who we really are. Severus Snape had plenty of chances to run away, to save his own skin, but he didn't take them. In continuing to work for the good side he showed immense bravery and loyalty. True Gryffindor qualities. (And as an aside, does anyone else find it ironic that the Slytherin whom Albus implied could have been a Gryffindor was killed by a snake?)

In conclusion then: was Severus a nice man? No. Was he a good man? Very definitely yes, in my opinion, although I'm sure many will disagree.

Another thing I want to add to your wonderful assessment of who Snape was, Moon, is that we were wrong to assume that Snapes Worst Memory had anything to do with him being embarassed or made a fool by James and the other Marauders. The real reason that was his worst memory was because that was when he lost his best friend, that was when he began to lose Lily. He called her a Mudblood in anger, and I truly believe he regretted that the rest of his life as well.

Snape, most definitely was not nice to Harry, he had too much of his father in him. He did, however, risk his life to save him. No matter the reasons, he did good.

*ahem* I just want to mention that I did say in May that calling Lily a Mudblood was the reason why it was Snape's worst memory.

Anyway, in addition to Moon's lovely assessment, I would also like to point out that Snape, while not always nice or good, was always on the good side. I think he was a little more "raw" then he needed to be, but there are a lot of people in this world that have prejuidices and treat people inferiorly for various stupid reasons. Look at how people can treat other people about political views. Good people get their hackles up very easy and can be downright mean towards an opposing opinion or party.

I also think that all of these revelations bring into question why did Snape treat Harry so badly if he loved Lily so much. Yes, I think it partially was because of James but I think there was another underlying reason. Personally, I think Harry was an aching reminder of what Snape did by revealing the prophesy to LV. Every day Harry was in Snape's class was just one reminder of his one true love, Lily, and his part in how she died.

I feel so bad for Snape. "The Prince's Tale" chapter made me want to cry. It just seemed like Snape and Lily should have ended up together. I think it was kind of implied that Lily was the only person Snape ever cared about, at least that's the impression I got anyway, and it's so heartbreaking because he ended up losing her. I still wonder how she ended up with James. She really seemed to dislike him, and we never found out exactly what changed her opinion. I kind of wish she had forgiven Snape for calling her a Mudblood. She probably knew he didn't mean it.

I think the reason that Lily wound up with James and not Snape is that James changed. Not only did he change but, his friends changed.

I believe that it was Snape's refusal to change, to see that maybe some of his friends were bad news. He also crossed a line when he called Lily a mudblood. Snape had the same chances that James had when it came to change.

At some point James became a kinder person face it, many of us as teenagers are not very nice. However, as we grow up, hopefully we recognise the error of our ways and change them for the better.

I have to disagree and say that the case for Snape as a good man is weak, weaker, in fact, than I thought before DH.

When we look at his youth, we see that he was determined to be a Death-Eater and even his love of Lily wasn't going to stop him. Lily confronts him about calling her mudblood in this fashion:

"I can't pretend anymore. You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
"No - listen, I didn't mean - "
" - to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?"

Lily recognizes that he wishes only to make an exception for her and she can not accept this. He wants her, but is willing to give her nothing - a selfish desire. She confronts him about the friends he keeps - the death-eater wannabes - and their cruelty, but he ignores her comments and thinks only of having her.

Later, when her life is in danger, he thinks only of protecting her, he does not even consider her son.

"You disgust me," said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little. "You do not care, then, about the deaths of her husband and child? They can die, as long as you have what you want?"

His behavior to students in class, not just Harry, at times goes beyond any reasonable bounds.

These are not the acts of a good man.

But I like to think that there was some growth in him.

When he is tending Dumbledore's cursed hand, he seems to be genuinely concerned with his well being. He is distraught that DD has been so foolish. And, of course, we know he did not wish to be the one to kill Dumbledore.

He reacts strongly when Phineas refers to Hermione as Mudblood, but this may be due to what he feels the word has cost him rather than any consideration of the hateful nature of the word.

The great risk he puts himself in by continuing to serve Voldemort speaks to great courage and sacrifice, but does his motive remain only the memory of Lily?

I want to believe that his motives were stronger, more than clinging to his selfish desire, but the evidence is sparse. I would gladly here any more evidence that can be offered, because I want to believe better of him.

I see pretty good reasons in the text and in some of the arguments here to continue considering Snape a bad guy who happened to be on the "good" side. Again, the fact that he loved Lily seems to have been his only redeeming characteristic. That love is the only thing that motivated him to take the action he took.

Having said that, remember that it all boils down to choices and he chose to behave badly in manner toward most people. Even his final action of wanting to look Harry in the eye when he died wasn't so much about Harry, but getting one last look at Lily's eyes for himself. I find the comparison of Snape to people who engage in heated political debate rather simplistic in dealing with this particular character. While r/l politicians/pundits might have their softer side that they use in dealing with colleagues/family/friends Snape has not shown a "softer" side to anyone, save Lily. Perhaps his concern for Dumbledore is more out of motivation for self-preservation - he just played it wiser than Peter Pettigrew. And again, Jo herself has said what a horrible person he is. If the person who gave life to him on the page thinks he's horrid (yet capable of acting in a noble manner, if only for the sake of Lily) then who am I to disagree with the author? I do like the irony of this Slytherin being done in by a snake.

In the world of fine arts, there is a term often used to describe certain artists or performers as sacred monster. While their output is impressive and amazing to behold, they get away with treating people like dirt or worse because of the fact that they are indeed so talented. Maybe that's the best way of describing Snape - he's a sacred monster. Immensly talented as a wizard, but a failure as a human being.

I have to say I'm surprised that some people seem to think that the question of Snape being good is not on which side he was on but his whole character and all of his actions. To me, when I say Snape is good, I mean that he's on the right side (for whatever motives). And he is. I certainly don't agree with all his opinions and actions. He is a shady character. But he did the right thing. He risked his life for spying for the order. Maybe his motives weren't altruistic. But, when it comes down to it, whose ever completely are? Being hard on Harry, I'd say his ulterior motives for fighting Voldemort are survival and revenge. Of course Snape still hates James. And he has every right to. Why shouldn't he? James didn't treat him friendly and finally he was the guy who married the girl he loved. Tell me you'd love a person like that. I wouldn't. People still think that James and Sirirus are "good" though they have flaws and we've seen both act cruelly (the Kreacher transformation was rather telling, wasn't it). Dumbledore does the right thing but he uses people to achieve it. Is that really ok? Is it morally ok to see people as means to achieve a goal, even if it is for the "greater good"?. All these questions and doubts were touched in the book. When we go down this path, wanting to define when a deed or a person is truly "good", and what "good" means at all, we'll get to the point where we will be discussing morale and ethics on a truly philosophical level.

Similar thing with redemption. In my understanding, the question here was about Snape killing Dumbledore. So now that it's been proven that he did it on Dumbledore's order, he's redeemed. His record is cleared in that department. Did his years of spying, risking his life and providing priceless information for the Order clear him of being a Death Eater and being responsible for many deaths? I'm not sure. Maybe both times in his life should be seen for what they were. The wrong and the brave. But if the second one cannot make amends to the first, it still is something that shouldn't be underestimated or brushed aside.

As with almost all of the characters in the serie, Snape isn´t good or bad, he has something of both.

I have no doubt he was on the good side in the war. He loved Lily, and I got the feeling he had respect and maybe some love for DD, when I read the Prince´s tale.

He´s actions towards Harry in their many years together, on the other hand, was not actions of good. And the way he put his own students over everyone else, it´s not evil, but it´s bad.

"But this is touching, Severus," said Dumbledore seriously. "Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?"
"For him?" shouted Snape. "Expecto patronum!"
This part of the book shows a lot of Snape to me. He can love, but he can´t forgive. It´s like he can´t forgive Harry for being James son, and trying to help Harry is never for his sake, but just for Lily and Dumbledore, and trying to pay his debt.

Weasley wrote:

Another thing I want to add to your wonderful assessment of who Snape was, Moon, is that we were wrong to assume that Snapes Worst Memory had anything to do with him being embarassed or made a fool by James and the other Marauders. The real reason that was his worst memory was because that was when he lost his best friend, that was when he began to lose Lily. He called her a Mudblood in anger, and I truly believe he regretted that the rest of his life as well. Snape, most definitely was not nice to Harry, he had too much of his father in him. He did, however, risk his life to save him. No matter the reasons, he did good.

Well, my words have already been taken. That's exactly what I felt Weasley!! Would I be right to assume that after Harry saw this the first time in OOTP that Snape had pulled him out of the Pensieve? I'm thinking Harry probably would have seen his mum and Snape talking about Snape calling Lily a Mudblood if Harry had stayed longer.

sivjune wrote:

Quote:: "But this is touching, Severus," said Dumbledore seriously. "Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?" "For him?" shouted Snape. "Expecto patronum!" This part of the book shows a lot of Snape to me. He can love, but he can´t forgive. It´s like he can´t forgive Harry for being James son, and trying to help Harry is never for his sake, but just for Lily and Dumbledore, and trying to pay his debt.

I agree that this is a very telling scene. It's been argued that Snape was more obsessed with Lily, in a forbidden fruit sort of way, than really in love with her. After all, he couldn't change for her and his morals were no where near hers. But I disagree to a point.

They met as children before ever going to Howarts. This is something that can form a strong and powerful bond. While in her case, it seemed she was content to just be best friends with him, he started to form strong feelings for her. It could be because she was the first to show him kindness. She was concerned about his home life, asking if his parents were still fighting a lot. (Sorry, don't have exact quotes because I'm at work) We've seen from Harry's Occulmency lessons that Snape didn't have a happy childhood -- that his parents' fighting brought him to tears occasionally. Lily was someone he could talk to about this, at least a little bit.

When he called her Mudblood and she finally realized (or stopped ignoring) that he was only ever going to make the exception for her, he lost his best friend. Perhaps the only real friend he had ever had in his life. So he turned to the future Death Eaters to fill the void left by Lily. And it wasn't until she was threatened that he realized how badly he had messed up.

Moving forward to his treatment of Harry. It was petty, yes. But in a mixed up way, he was trying to balance his hatred for the man who married the only woman he had only loved, with the love for Lily. So he treated Harry like crap time and time again......but he saved him time and time again. From the SS, through DH. And I remember the final scene with Snape and Harry in HBP --- not only did he stop the other DE from cursing Harry and lifting the Cruciatus curse....but he also stopped Harry from casting the Unforgivables at him. And the entire time that Harry was shooting spells at him, he didn't fire back until Harry called him a coward.

I think his reaction to being called a coward was the most convincing to me about which side he was on. He had fulfilled Dumbledore's request of him, even though he did *not* want to kill Dumbledore. That was not the time to be calling him a coward. Especially not by the person that he ultimately did everything good for. (Well, he did it for Lily, but he did it also because Lily lives on in Harry)

(Sorry if this is jumbled at all -- trying to go back and forth with this window and work at the same time!)

It's hard drawing the line between good and evil, and even more so for Snape.

To judge Snape better, I would like to bring up another character whose loyalty to Dumbledore is clear, but who is also selfish, cowardly, unreliable and on top of that, a criminal. I'm talking about Mundungus.
Every time we see him, it's with negative connotations. He was introduced while leaving his job for the Order to steal a few cauldrons, leaving Harry to be attacked by Dementors. He tries to hex Mr. Weasley; he steals old siverware which belongs to Sirius and finally, in DH, disapparates in a situation where he should absolutely not have done so.
No, Mundungus is not a nice person, he's got a shady character, but he is in the Order and hasn't yet betrayed it. He is on the good side because he chose to be. JKR doesn't tell us which motivations he follows, but I very much doubt they'll be anything else but selfish.

Now, to have the other side, we could take Narcissa Malfoy. Is she on Voldemort's side? For most of the time, yes. But is she an evil person?
Narcissa deeply loves her son and husband, and as it becomes clear in the first chapter of DH, she fears and maybe detests the Dark Lord. But she doesn't dare to work against him until she sees that it is the only way to safe her son. She is also selfish, not as cruel as her sister, but definitely nasty. And she chooses the Dark Side.

All members of the Order have in common that they chose to fight for it. They each have different motivations, different goals. Dumbledore might work for the "greater good", Mundungus might be afraid for his own safety, somebody else might just want revenge. Snape works for the only person he ever loved, even if she is long dead.
The personality doesn't matter in the Order. They have one common goal, and that is literally the only thing they all have in common. But it's enough to qualify them for the good side.

Maybe I got it wrong, being that english is not my mother tongue, But I assumed that when Snape asked Harry `look at me` he wasn't asking Harry to look at him in that precise moment,to see Lily's eyes, but to look at his actions at the pensieve, for Snape knows that when Harry first visited his memories, he pursued to see what James was up to, and not him, Severus.He was making sure that Harry sees what he has to see.
On the issue of if he is good or evil, as somebody said once, the world is not divided in good people and deatheaters, I think Jo is trying to Show us all the shades of grey there are in mankind. Even when to my eyes, he is redempted for the loyalty he showed to DD, and even when he was on the orders side, he was once a deatheater, and a intelligent one ( I think regulus was DE because he was a fool) and the only reason he changed sides it was because LV murdered Lily, and he was nasty, not only to Harry, whose resemblance to James could have made him be prejudiced against him, but to loads of other studens, he was particulary cruel with Hermione (she was a mudblood). So, even when he did worked to save Harry, I think it was too much from Harry to name his son Albus Severus,when he could have been Albus Sirius or Albus Arthur, Remus or Alastor.

I have to agree with moon (and several others) -- Snape is good because of the choices he made. Treating people with respect and kindness is important, but it's not all there is. Even if his motivation was an obsessive, long-dead love, it still led him to

I think the comparison to LV is especially apt, and exactly where JK wanted us to look. I've always looked at Harry, Dumbledore, LV, and Snape and seen how similar they are (all for different reasons)--the difference between Snape and LV at one point was just that LV put into action what Snape may have been dreaming about as a schoolboy. The difference we are left with in the end is indeed that Snape can love...and however obsessive and even greedy that love was, it was enough to lead Snape to the right choices.

Isn't the whole point of redemption that people who seem beyond hope, people who are nasty and self-centered and prideful, can still do a bit of good in the world in spite of their problems?

S.Black in the main DH Spoiler thread was saying Snape never made a final sacrifice...but in retrospect, didn't he sacrifice his life at the end? I guess this depends on how much Snape knows about wand allegiance, but he didn't correct LV, tell him he wasn't master of the Elder Wand. Maybe Harry was the only one to figure that out, but, even if Snape didn't understand that whole thing, he STILL didn't correct LV, tell him who had initially disarmed DD, didn't tell him all the details. If he were really rotten to the core, wouldn't he have started spilling stuff on the merest chance it would save his life? I DO see Snape's last moments as a sacrifice. Even as he lies dying he is carrying out DD's commands, making sure Harry knows he's got to sacrifice himself to Voldemort--remember how bitter he was when he found that out, when DD told him the boy he'd spent years protecting would become a sacrifice, too. Again, if completely selfish, couldn't he have kept this to himself?

As meme and Englaroma have pointed out, these books show clearly that "good" and "evil" can become very mixed up when we look at people who don't fit the mold, like Dung and Narcissa. Would I want Snape as my dad? No. Would I trust him, under the book's circumstances? Yes.

When I went and reread The Prince's Tale, I was struck by how similar, in some ways, James and Severus are--both skinny, black-haired, talented wizards who both eventually pursue the same woman. JK highlights the cared-for air James has, in contrast to the neglect Severus has clearly suffered. DD told Harry at least once how much of an exception he was, growing up love-starved and deprived and still finding so many ways to do good. He also says sometimes they sort too early. I can't help feeling Severus might have been different had his upbringing been different, had he been given the right training & guidance.

And yet, in the end, with Lily long gone and his life waning, he did what was right.

My humble take on dear Severus.

I've always thought, before HBP, he was a really fashinating and complex charachter, evem in his evil aura. I loved him much more as an antagoinist for Sirius and sympathized with him when I discovered of his negative past. DD's death made me lose respect for him. I passed the entire first part of DH glorying the fact that, as I was convinced, he was revealing evil (George's ear). In effect, I agree when many of you think he is not good. He is not. He is the inventor of horrible charms (sectumsempra), a young and convinced Death Eater... very similar to Regulus, in the end. Neither of them is good even if in the end both decided to leave the bad side. We still don't really know about Regulus: was it fear? was it a real changing of mind? Probabily the second, but we will never hear his point of view. Snape's case is more difficult, in my opinion. He worked for the good, against Voldemort, for DD and risking his own life. But I can't but agree with those who underlined that it was all for his own interest, his own love for Lily. On the other hand, a very sweet side of him was revealed in his way of treating Lily.
In conclusion, he was on the good side (the murder was organised by DD and Snape revealed to have always looked after Harry, even if with no affection) but can't be defined good in the common sense of the word. And moreover, "good" is not something defined and determinated in only one way. Even DD have some negative apects in his hystory and his behaviour (past and present - towards Harry) but isn't bad or evil. At least in my opinion. In the end, I liked the fact that the charachters are so complex and alive, so human in their multiplicity.

I wanted to add something about Sirius's trap against Snape: it was in the 5th year, I reckon, since the memory was previous then his discussion with Lily about Remus status and the "worst" memory. Am I wrong? It means more time for the Marauders to grow up and make that change Snapes hadn't (sorry I can't remember whose post this was in).
I agree also on the "new" (for me, becuse I wasn't convinced before) interpretation of the "worst" memory: he really lost Lily long before her death due to his beliefs.
So, in the end, Harry's eyes role was to connect him to Snape's desire to save what remained of his love? In their final look? Why it seems too less in relation to the aspectations which were grown before DH?

Giulia