Do you think it was significant (how much) when the statue in m.o.m. was destroyed? (OoP )



In my opinion Hermione will be successful in her spew activities somehow, personally I d rather she stopped with it, because it seems to be useless (house elves dont want to be free), but I expect it will bring something interesting in the end.

I have a few question, that I can answer myself now:

Who can give freedom to the elf? - I think , his master can....

Why Hermy tries to give clothes to the Hogwarts elves (because she want to free them) - but this means, that she is their master or owner or what...

And its written (where, that s the think I cant tell, but you know where) that they stopped cleaning gryffindor tower, because they didnt want any piece of clothing..

The thing with the clothes in Gryffindor tower puzzled me too, but I thought that perhaps it is the mental association that it brings. The very thought of freedom seems distasteful to them. I would love to see the elves play a part in the war, they seem to be fairly powerful with magic. I think they make more of a statement about social class sometimes (and I know that JKR doesn't set out to make a point, just to reflect reality in an interesting way).

The giant leader is the Gurg. I don't think that Grawp could go back to the other giants and lead them, Karkus sounds a tad scary and Grawpy is only little for a giant. But I agree that he could be useful. I also think his appearance added something to Hagrid's character. I mean Hagrid is half giant and good, but is he good because of the human in him? We see him mostly as a wizard, and this brings us closer to his other side.

I think we will see the beginning of much darker times, with an increase in the uneasiness of the general wizarding population. The Dementors will start to attack people, there will be more disappearances, more panic and probably more deaths. I wonder whether the house rivalry at Hogwarts will be affected for better or worse by this. The muggle world is going to be involved more, because they will suffer most losses. Lots of characters are going to develop in interesting ways, Lupin and Draco being two of them I think. But that's for the character discussion threads.

The destruction of the statue seemed very symbolic to me. It told a lie about the heirarchical relationships in the magical world. It could be a metaphor for the destruction of the cosy little world as Fudge knew it, but I think that the perception of order and rank is going to be destroyed. The ministry is going to have to ask for support from the goblins and centaurs, and I'm not sure they will get it.

<span style="color:purple;font-family:comic sans ms;]Follow him, he speaks in sentences - Eddie Izzard.[/color]



<span style="color:black;font-family:Christmas;font-size:small;]Imagine wasting your time and energy persecuting Harry Potter readers when there are little toerags like tabloid journalists on the loose.[/color]<span style="color:black;font-family:georgia;]The molecules shift, then everything goes back to normal. But everything's different. Fragments of what used to be flutter in the mind but can never be made real again.[/color]



<span style="color:purple;font-family:comic sans ms;]Lead me not into temptation, I can find the way myself.[/color]

In every book Harry meets a new animal that is somehow significant for the plot.



Philosopher's Stone: Solely new animals. Centaurs.

Chamber of Secrets: Phoenix, and also spider and baskelisk

Prisoner of Azkaban: Hippogriff, werewolf

Goblet of Fire: Dragons, vilies and waterpeople if they count (don't remember their real name)

Order if the Phoenix: Thestrals





I'm thinking, he probably will meet another new animal and it's probably mentioned in Fantastic beasts and where to find them. So what's your guess?



Kneazle is likely, although she already mentioned it at her website so it wouldn't come as a surprise.

-- and I think that it's very clear what that means. Voldemort's back, Fudge & the ministry have finally accepted it and the wizarding world are now preparing themselves to face a second war of terror. The question is, I think, how this is going to be dealt with, and what the consequenses are going to be.

Artemisia, you bring up several excellent points:

Quote::

I think we will see the beginning of much darker times, with an increase in the uneasiness of the general wizarding population. The Dementors will start to attack people, there will be more disappearances, more panic and probably more deaths. I wonder whether the house rivalry at Hogwarts will be affected for better or worse by this.

You know, I think the house rivalry will be affected for both better and worse. As it was said somewhere earlier on this thread, the Sorting Hat's dark predictions for the future have come true, and it's advice of unity has been followed -- by some.

Because it is, unfortunately, I think it will prove to be, absolutely true what is said the in OotP: the unity is between Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff. There is representatives from all of them in the DA and even though they all naturally favours their own houses in terms of the Cup, they ultimately support each other at Quiddith - "anyone but Slytherin" seems to be the general approach to this matter.

Concerning the Slytherins, Harry's reaction to the thought of unity with them clearly speaks Gryffindors, Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs alike: "fat chance".



I think this will not make matters better in the what will probably be the already tense atmosphere at Hogwarts next year - and this seems to be Dumbledore's concerns as well.

Because, as Sirius says, the world isn't devided into good people and Death Eaters. Not all Slytherins -but a fair few for sure- are Dark Siders, and a lot of the people who joined Voldemort during his first regime was forced or frightened into it.

The point is not to make the Slytherins look like saints - they certainly are not, but they are still not Evil personified. The definition of Slytherin House -though it have some darker sides- also contains some good qualities: they are clever and of great ambition. Also, all members of one House are individuals, not indentical copies of the same mould - one look at the Gryffindor fifth years in enough to confirm that: the range goes from clever, book-ish, rule-loving Hermione to the clumsy and nervous, yet good-hearted Neville.



And, of course, don't forget: if in doubt, look at Dumbledore. Now, he has been taking about discovering and acknowledge the qualities and values in others -even, and maybe most especially, those who are different from one self- for many years now. As a powerful and wise wizard, his adivices are often the best to follow, and he spoke of looking beyond differences and seeking unity before anyone else did.

There will of course be -and there already is- those who will disagree with Dumbledore on this. Several Slytherins have already shown where their loyalties lie: one of the reasons there were no Slytherins in the DA is that a good deal of them were grouping behind Umbridge and the Ministry (which at that time shared the Daily Prophet's not-so-flattering view of Dumbledore) in the Inquisitorial Squad.



Those who stand firmly behind Dumbledore will follow his advice and orders though they may not agree with him -like Sirius and Snape did, when they, despite the deep loathing they had for one another, went with Dumbledore's wishes and shook hands.

The problem is that not everybody who originally supported Dumbledore continued to do so after the Ministry's anti-Dumbledore propaganda through the Daily Prophet. Harry got to see the effects of this perhaps more than anyone during the OotP: even Seamus, who Harry had always considered a faithful friend, turned agains him. This obviously shows that we may need to reconsider who is really faithful to Dumbledore and who's not.



I think this will be a major part of the sixth book - it really isn't possible to refrain to take sides anymore. How the final "army" agains Voldemorts forces will look like, and who will be in it, remains to be seen, though, some of the events in OotP can give us an idea:



It looks like the Death Eaters may have gotten the giants convinced to join Voldemort, and when it comes to the Dementors, the question wasn't if, but when they would abandon the Ministry and turn to the Dark Side.

It is the rest of the non-human wizarding community that the real fight will be about, for allies beyond the wizard race can prove very useful -and has already done so for Voldemort (the Death Eaters who "escaped" from Azkaban/were released by the Dementors).

Artemisia, your comment of the Statue of Magical Brethren make me think:

Quote::

The destruction of the statue seemed very symbolic to me. It told a lie about the heirarchical relationships in the magical world. It could be a metaphor for the destruction of the cosy little world as Fudge knew it, but I think that the perception of order and rank is going to be destroyed. The ministry is going to have to ask for support from the goblins and centaurs, and I'm not sure they will get it.

I think you are absolutely right. Reading this made me remember something Harry said (or thought, more like) during his visit to the Ministry of Magic for his hearing: when looking more closely at the centaur, the goblin and the house-elf, all looking admiringly up at the witch and wizard standing over them, Harry thought that the house-elf was the only one looking realistic; the centaur and goblin would never worship humans in such a way.

Maybe the Statue, the way Harry saw it, wasn't just a metaphor, but also depicting the position of the different races in the war?

Centaurs, we know, has -at least to some extent- turned their backs on humans. There are some exceptions, like Firenze, but they are rare, and Firenze himself does not seem to condemn their behaviour towards him. Obviously, he knows -and accepts- that that is the way of the centaurs, and thus making it seem even more unlikely that the other centaurs will ever change their minds, and come to the aid of wizards.



Now, if Harry's assumptions are correct, the not-realistic-looking centaur could well symbolize the centaurs' indifferent attitude towards the wizards and the war.

The house-elf, acording to Harry, was looking genuinely admiring at the witch and wizard. We know that house-elves are truly loyal to their masters: Winky even covered for her master, mr Crouch, when he smuggled his son out of jail and put an illegal Imperius Curse on him. From this we can assume that the house-elves will support their masters in the war, but this also means that the a house-elf, instead of taking sides, will support his/her master regardless whether this wizard is a Dark Sider or not.

The exception, of course, would be if the house-elf, like Dobby, had no master, and was free to speak his or her mind. Still, Hermione must work fast, even for her standars, to change free the Hogwarts house-elves, let alone convincing other wizards and witches to do their housework themselves, and free their house-elves!

So, that leaves the goblin. Following this theory, that would mean that the goblins will turn their backs on wizards too - and, to be honest, that isn't unthinkable. At least, the possibilities are that the goblins would leave the Ministry for the Dark Side if they were offered something - most likely gold.



All in all (and that certainly ended up as quite a lot!), Dumbledore seems to be right, as always: if they shall have any chance of defeating Voldemort and his followers, all those who are against him will need to unite. My guess, though, is that it's not going to be easy - there is already enough hosility inside Hogwarts without what's going to come from "external, deadly foes&quot;, in the words of the Sorting Hat.



This is just my opinion, though. And that doesn't make it neither true nor probable, so, if you have any thoughts on the subject, I'd love to hear them! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->



kit <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://pages.prodigy.net/siriusblack/boards/smilies/bl_paw.gif ALT=":paw]<!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->~ Life is a box of Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans: it's all about picking what's good and leave the rest to the Slytherins ~

What do you think about the future of Percy?

Im a bit curious where is his love Penelope..

And whether she aproves his attitude to his family.

I hope Percy will return home once (or die - as a warning for bad kids..)

Percy is not a bad kid, he's not cruel or anything. He would never join Voldemort. He's only too interested in power.



It would be really sweet if he still was dating Penelope

I really think spew is pointless too, but i think it makes a good add-on to the books. Most of the funny comments Ron and Harry make are about spew. Even though its kind of a serious subject it puts a lot of humor into the books!



Another thing I was hoping someone could help me with is about the next DADA teacher. I remember reading on jk's site under FAQs about some professor who would play a big role in the 6th book. Maybe he/shes the next DADA teacher. But I'm not even sure I have a theory going because I can't even remember the name.... and maybe I never did read that but dreamt that I knew who the next DADA teacher was... *goes off to check*



-Nicole

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bsiriusblackfanclub.showUserPublicProfile?gid=motormouth374>motormouth374[/url] at: 11/30/04 3:24 pm

It's not Professor Bicycle... JK was defininetly joking when she said that!



I have to go to sleep, but before I go, I'm going to be a killjoy and say that if we want this thread to go anywhere, we're going to have to post replies to the questions people ask instead of just have everyone fire off questions of their own. I say this with the best intentions because we have an opportunity to get a really good topic going.

<span style="color:black;font-family:verdana;font-size:xx-small;]Please read the important notice from our officers in the Daily Prophet and[/color]<span style="color:green;font-family:verdana;font-size:xx-small;]help out![/color] Edited by: <A HREF=http://p072.ezboard.com/bsiriusblackfanclub.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eruname@siriusblackfanclub>Eruname[/url] at: 7/25/04 7:54 pm

Wow! This thread has some great points.



I, like many of you, have been assuming that the whole SPEW thing was just a bit of fun written in to fill out the stories. However, the following statement by Emma really got me thinking.

Quote::

It's true that the house-elves doesn't want to be saved, but if they change their minds, Dobby has collected enough little hats ans stuff for all of them. They could all be free in a minute if they liked -

We know that the elves won't want to be freed, so it is unlikely that they would suddenly choose to take clothes so they can fight in a war. BUT, what if Dumbledore, as the Hogwarts house elves' official master, asked them to take part in some way? We know that they are powerfully magical and that they are fiercely loyal to their master and also proud to do their bidding and, as Winky says, keep their masters' secrets. We also know that Hogwarts has the most house elves of any one place. For all we know, Dumbledore could have been having house elves help him out all along . . .



Now, I admit, this theory is highly speculative, but it is a possibility. And, based on what I have read about house elves so far, a hundred of these highly magical and extremely loyal creatures would make great allies agains any foe.

I hate to follow a post of mine with another post but this thread has inspired ideas about many different things. I hate to muddy up one post with too many topics.



Anyway, I just wanted to comment that I really like the whole dark Percy angle. I know that many people will be wanting to stone me for saying that but it is true.

I'm not going to stone you, but is there any evidence that Percy could become evil? The fact that he wants power isn't enough for me. Otherwise, you could say Harry will turn evil--he wants power just like everyone does in some way. There's a difference, for example, between Fudge and Voldemort, though both wanted power. There's a thread where people were discussing whether Umbridge could become a Death Eater, and many people said no, she was just misguided; but to me, Umbridge has done more evil that Percy has. What makes Percy's desire for power different from Fudge and Umbridge and similar to that of the Death Eaters?



Also, if Percy wanted power, I'm sure he could have fun bossing around students as a teacher (*wink*) or by continuing to work in the Ministry. You don't have to be evil to become powerful. Percy's very smart (despite the occasional evidence to the contrary); I'm sure he would realize that he couldn't gain anything by teaming up with Voldemort.

<span style="color:black;font-family:verdana;font-size:xx-small;]Please read the important notice from our officers in the Daily Prophet and[/color]<span style="color:green;font-family:verdana;font-size:xx-small;]help out![/color]

Eruname, all good points. And, I really can't say that there is any evidence that Percy will turn evil or that he has done anything worse than other characters that are evil. I just think it would be a very interesting direction for the story to take. And, you have to admit, by not indicating that Percy is going to re-side with his family and the order, JK is still leaving all possibilities open.



And this brings me to my next point, and in my opinion, the most compelling reason to think that Percy MAY side with Voldemort; Percy has essentially turned against his whole family. That is a very treacherous thing to do. He has disowned them, ignores them in public and makes it widely known to everyone that he is not associated with them anymore. Granted, there are always family squabbles but this is an extreme type of rift. I just think that his turning his back on the people who love them with little or no regard for anyone but himself and his own success, is a little sample of the type of behavior we MAY come to expect from Percy.



Again, just my own opinion and who knows, maybe after the events at the ministry in book 5, Percy will come to his senses and realign himself with his family.



Incidentally, I personally think that Umbridge is evil to the core (that whole writing lines with your own blood thing, eeww!). Deatheater? Hmm. We'll have to see about that one too.

I likeyour ideas Jessegirl. It would be really interesting to see Percy turn to the bad side. It would prove that not only Slytherins are likely to choose the dark side, but also others .. like Peter P did.

In my deepest inside i still hope Percy will change his mind and realize what is REALLY important in life... I hope it wont be too late for him. I feel extremely sorry for dear Mrs Weasley, indeed.



Umbridge? Hmm, she is not likely to be liked. (is it correct? - grammar and meaning i mean)

She and her pink cardigan, kittens, toadlike expression....

No, definitely no. She is the best negative character. (or one of the best)

( I wonder what would Miss Marple say about her ....)

In OoTP, Bill and Mr. Weasley are in an intense discussion about recruiting the goblins. Ragnok, the goblin leader, seems uninterested, but Bill is still trying. He seems to think that if they are given more rights they will fight alongside Dumbledore. (And in typical throw-us-off-the-scent-style, JKR interrupts that whole bit.)



Oooh! And that whole bit Skeeter wrote about Fudge and the goblins...any truth in that? How would that affect the Ministry?



Any insights folks?



*runs to look stuff up*

<span style="color:red;font-family:Kristen;font-size:small;]~Madam Pince[/color]





<span style="color:red;font-family:Times New roman;font-size:small;]&quot;I particularly enjoyed your descr!ption of me as an obsolete dingbat&quot;[/color]

Madam Pince, you also reminded me of the Quibbler artical in OOTP. I seem to recall something during the scene on the train with Luna's copy . . . Something about Fudge and being hungry for Goblin Gold or something like that.



Of course, the Quibbler can't always be trusted but perhaps there is a kernel of truth burried in there.